liz cheney needs to go. she is still a part of the bush bunch. the way that trump beat jeb bush in the primaries, don mccain, cheney, mitt romney, they are all part of the bush bunch from back when bush was president, and they did not like the idea that trump beat the bush's so bad. host: do you like elise stefanik, tim? caller: i like that she has got the power in her to stand up. the republican party has a bunch of people who are still, like i said, a part of the bush bunch you are not standing up. they are on their knees all the time. host: she worked in the george w white house. does that disqualify her, in your opinion? caller: no, i am not saying all the bush people were bad. i am saying the people in leadership right now -- we have the worst leadership in the country the last 50 years right now. anyone supporting nancy pelosi -- supported by nancy pelosi needs to go, period. he is standing up, not on his knees bowing to this craziness of open borders and putting a bunch of money and trying to throw money at stuff. he is willing to stand up.

i think that facing that determination earlier regarding liz cheney and margaret greene. wanted to be quiet after that and not stress so much her criticism of other fellow republicans, i think we could be in a very different circumstance today. she's going to be held up by the media and only to the extent she's useful to them in criticizing the republican party which is republicans who get the most attention. howie: it is a fair important to speak to the majority of the conference. would the media just rather focus on the war of insults an name-calling between trump and cheney rather than, for example, the pain-staking negotiations with the president and the hill over an infrastructure package? liz: listen, the shining object of the week, howie. that's all this is. they will move onto something else if there's a better narrative or something that they're hearing about from the american public. i would simply say on the big-tent comment that kevin mccarthy did say the gop party is a big tent. we want free ideas and free thoughts and people should feel free to speak up excep

war for liz cheney. how does that practically play out in the halls of congress? >> she is still decidedly in the minority of the minority of the house republican conference about this very issue. she will be an outspoken voice. she'll get a lot of attention when she speaks. but there are so few members of the house republican conference or senate republican conference for that matter who are going up against donald trump, even the ones who are uncomfortable about the former president. they don't want -- they recognize his power with the republican base. she has a significant challenge if she's going to try to use this in a way to bring -- to try to take -- prevent the former president from re-emerging in the political scene given the support within the republican conference. and one reason why even perhaps both sides didn't want to have the voice vote today. or the secret ballot vote today. even if she did -- the reporting i have done over the last several days in talking to a wide array of members, a l

that is why liz cheney's critique is not just distracting. whether a political party and its supporters embraced or at least tolerate an imagined reality and the men who is creating that. for his part, the man in the middle of all this is at his resort in mar-a-lago in florida and is still keen to talk about the election. tmz shows a video in which mr. trump makes a eech at a wedding. we hear him rail against biden's iran policy and the election result. and then he says the couple are beautiful. there's another video where the men who was president in january stands in front of a small crowd and turns to some familiar themes. >> let's see what they find. i wouldn't be surprised if they found thousands and thousands and thousands of votes. after that, you'll watch pennsylvania, georgia, michigan, wisconsin. you're watching new hampshire. they found a lot of votes in new hampshire just now. this was a rigged election. everybody knows it. anchor: with that, mr. trump wrapped up, the crowd waited for the band and the former president's search goe

liz cheney has remained unrepentant.she is yesterday. >> millions of americans have been misled by the former president. they have heard only his words, but not the truth. remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. i will not participate in that. i will not sit back and watch in silence, while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins a former president's crusade to undermine our democracy. >> we heard from liz cheney again today. >> i will do everything i can to eure that the former president never again gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke with his language. we have seen his lack of commitment and dedication to the constitution. i think it is very important that we make sure, whomever we elect is someone faithful to the constitution. >> here is jeff flake in the washington post saying the party no longer cares about the truth. this is amy eds, a former republican lawmaker in liz cheney's home state of oil me. >> it's a st

liz cheney. very good catching up with you. >> there grow, two very different directions for the gop. and apparently the republican party has made its choice. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, may 6th. along with joe, willie, and me, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. co-founder and ceo of axios, jim vandehei is with us. and member of the "new york times" editorial board, mara gay joins me this morning. we may as well dive right in. this morning, republicans are another step closer to pushing out congresswoman liz cheney from her role as gop conference chair. house minority whip steve scalise now publicly backing congresswoman elise stefanick to replace cheney in the position. a spokesperson for scalise said, quote, house republicans needs to be solely focused on taking back the house in 2022 and fighting against speaker pelosi and president biden's radical, socialist agenda. and elise stefanick is strongly committed to doing that. a spokesperson for cheney responde

do you have the votes to oust liz cheney? >> everyone in leadership serves at the pleasure of the conference. as you know, there is a lot at stake. democrats are destroying this nation. we've watched the greatest expansion of government and the socialist liberal agenda. we watch to them destroy our borders. we are hundreds of thousands -- we have hundreds of thousands coming across, we are catching people on the terrorist watch list. you have destruction of our energy. got the largest missed jobs report in more than two decades. did it -- to defeat nancy pelosi and the socialist agenda, we need to be united. we need to move forward, and that ice -- that is what i think will take place. >> is this just her ideology, that she is unable to get over being never trump and hindering her ability to discuss that very message that you just laid out? >> any member can take whatever position they believe. that is what the voters vote on the individuals, and they make that decision. we are talking about a position in leadership. we are i

liz cheney is a hawk on china. she's a hawk on russia and she understands what a propaganda triumph it is for them to have a former president leading his party in this direction and she's saying no, she's putting her hand up. she's refusing to go along. >> jamie, i mean, there is a long history of crass and craven politicians who have toadied up to bullies to remain in power, and over time, they don't usually end up so well, certainly at least not in the history books. congresswoman cheney, what happens to her now and i mean, at the larger picture, you know, for democrats watching and thinking well, this just doesn't really matter much because this is, you know, a battle happening within the republican party. we are a two-party system and we only work as a democracy when those two parties at least function on the basis of reality and one party does not completely believe a lie. >> from my conversations with her and from some of her colleagues who also think that donald trump is a danger to the country, what they te

important to pinpoint how we're judging these members of republican leadership when you look at liz cheney's voting record. she overwhelmingly voted with the president when he was in office. in fact, she voted with him for more often than stefanik. this is about that cheney refuses to side with the former president when it comes to his questions about the voting in the collection of votes in the 2020 election. she's repeatedly said president biden was elected and the election was fair and free and that is what caused all the canionsternation and caused the former president to continually attack her and caused many loud voices in the far right of the republican party and house of representatives to come after her and the other thing that's interesting and we have a picture of the house floor upright now. what is actually going to be kind of the opening act to liz cheney's speech here tonight, these are members of the house freedom caucus that are speaking of the house floor right now. they are talking about cancel culture. they're talking about all these different things that they believe hav

she's not lisz jones, she's liz cheney. honest, her family has been living and breathing the dark side of american politics at the highest reaches of power for five decades dating back to the days when her father, dick cheney, served as chief of staff to president ford in the vietnam era. he was president of defense under the first president bush. he was elected as vice president under george w. bush where he pushed a needles war to bring democracy to iraq and to grab some leverage over that country's oil reserves. in other words, the cheneys are the living embodiment of the industrial complex. those resources could be brought to bear in liz cheney's fight against trump. after all, she secretly got an op ed in the washington post. ironically it was neoconservatives who opened the door to trump's rise to power. the war in iraq so broke the faith of many americans with government and so exhausted many working class voters that many of them embraced the demagogue in donald j. trump who says he opposed the invasion. adam serwer

conservative by her voting record than liz cheney. liz cheney is the more conservative candidate the difference is that, elise stefanik has agreed, even as a moderate republican to be a lapdog for donald trump and that is the single qualifier that makes for eligible to be elevated in the republican conference just as they prepare to kick out liz cheney. >> this is a very interesting point for people who don't know, elise stefanik, i she has voted not a long lines of president trump more often than most republicans have not, she has taken stands that definitely are to the left or not to the right of liz cheney. carol leonnig, i want to read a little bit from what liz cheney wrote today, she wrote an op-ed in the washington post and she is not shining away from her position she right i am a conservative republican, and the most conservative of conservative values is reverence for the rule of law. at the heart of a republican is a commitment to the peaceful transfer of power among political rivals in accordance with the law. president ro

the big lie, that liz cheney ref refused to support. and for that, republicans threw her under the bus. the vote held behind closed doors. so none of those cowards in the gop would have to answer for those votes. but, if they thought that they would silence her, they were sure wrong. liz cheney stepped up to the microphones, and said this. >> i am absolutely committed, as i said last night, and as i said just now to my colleagues, that we must go forward. based on truth. we cannot, both, embrace the big lie and embrace the constitution. i will do everything i can to ensure that the former president never, again, gets anywhere near the oval office. we have seen the danger that he continues to provoke, with his language. we have seen his lack of commitment and dedication to the constitution. and i think it's very important that we make sure, whomever we elect, is somebody who will be faithful to the constitution. >> i said it last night. this is a profile in courage. liz cheney refused to back down, even though she knew her party would pu

the gop voting to push out liz cheney. at the same time, former trump officials will be setting the record straight on the election and on the insurrection as well. what do you expect at tomorrow's hearings? >> what we expect, don, is for more truth to be told. the former acting secretary of defense is going to talk about his concerns about sending troops up to deal with the insurrection on january 6th because he was concerned that it may provide some sort of indication or, you know, a lack of understanding about what their responsibility was and people might rmisinterpret it a a military coup. that's how concerned they were about the level of violence that could happen on capitol hill. we'll also hear testimony from top level officials in the trump justice department that are going to once again emphatically say there was just no evidence of widespread fraud throughout the country on election day. this, despite the fact that republicans continue to pedal that narrative over and over again not just here in washington but i

far less conservative than liz cheney. but she has been called a star by the former president and certainly has returned the love. one activist who spoke to cnn anonymously said, quote, that is all that counts these days. here she is again on steve bannon's show. >> my vision is to run with support from the president and his coalition of voters. this is also about being one team. and i am committed to being a voice. and being a clear -- sending a clear message that we are one team. and that means working with the president, and working with all of our excellent-republican members of congress. >> by the way, the president, she is referring to, is the former president. she talks of him, as though he did not lose the election. and that is what it takes to rise in the republican ranks, these days. buy into the big lie to borrow that phrase from an anonymous conservative, that's all that counts, these days. perspective now on the message this sends and the congresswoman spreading it from someone who served alongside her, kathle

secondly, liz cheney should go. e only people who support is nancy pelosi, and these liberal democrats. they love her now. i'm not crazy about cheney. i'm not crazy about elise stefanik either. but liz cheney should go. if she is supported by democrats, that is an issue. host: this is an opinion piece this morning in the "national review," conservative publication. the headline of a piece is, "liz cheney is not the problem." i will scroll down and read a part of what they say in their opinion piece. they write that -- from "national review we hear from ken next in woodstock -- from "national review." we hear from ken next in woodstock, connecticut. go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. if you don't believe there was not election fraud, you are obviously lost. how can states have more votes than eligible voters? pure and simple. liz cheney is a traitor, just like her father was. she should he removed. she should be executed. thank you. host: bill is our next caller. orange park, florida. caller: thanks for taki

liz cheney will stay in the party. i imagine she will be a voice of conscious and reason but not a voice of leadership in today's republican party any longer. >> you saw mitch mcconnell going out of his way, referring to joe biden, referring to socialists and people taking over. he wants no part of this as a lot of republicans wish it would not be playing out in their party. how does it affect the republican agenda. mitch mcconnell said his job is to stop the biden administration, but he has problems on his own bench. >> he absolutely does. you know, what i find is so fascinating about mitch mcconnell, he does not do anything without a plan. he always has a master plan that we have not seen until a couple of chess moves out. just as he avoided impeaching or allowing enough time to impeach donald trump while he was still president and have that trial, just as he did that, he is side-stepping the issue now. what does he really want? he wants to retake the senate. he wants more republicans elected. by hook or by crook don

liz cheney will try it.en painted as a split in the republican party, but the truth is, it's not even really a split. there's liz cheney, adam kinzinger, who we'll talk to live here, there's mitt romney and a handful of others and everyone else who's going along for the ride on this lie. >> it's incredible. you look at those three congressmen. and there was another tweet from a congressmen from north carolina yesterday, that sums up what i'll call the sophistication of the republican party and goes, nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah nah, good-bye, liz cheney. that's where they are. what's so ridiculous is, what they should be doing is saying, there's long gas lines in this country, the jobs report succeed last week, we've got violence in the middle east, we've got a hacked pipeline. like, they do have talking points and they just can't get it. one other thought about the lie that they're talking about, i want to revisit how we talk about the big lie. because i don't think it's got enough teeth to it. the big

chris: house republicans meet this week to decide whether to remove liz cheney as conference chair, thethree post in gop leadership. cheney says her party is at a turning point over former president trump's claims of a stolen election and his role in the capitol hill riot. and joining us now you, the head of the house gop's biggest caucus, indiana congressman, jim banks. congressman, welcome to fox news sunday. >> hey, chris, good to be with you. chris: you are one of the republicans leading the charge to remove liz cheney as chair of the republican conference and it looks like to replace it with elise stefanik, a congresswoman from upstate new york. i want to put up their voting records because it's pretty interesting. take a look. cheney has an 80% voting record from the conservative group heritage actions, stefanik's score is 48%. cheney voted with trump position these last four years 93% of the time. stefanik voted with trump positions 78% of the time. if cheney is being replaced and she's clearly it seems more conservative than stefanik, is it just because of the fact that she's no

>>> house republicans are expected to hold a vote this morning whether to remove congresswoman liz cheneyr post as conference chair. gop leaders will meet behind closed doors at 9:00 a.m. today and a member will need to bring up a vote of no confidence against cheney. vote will be held by secret battle and a simple majority would be needed to remove her from her leadership position. in the hours before to try to oust her, she took the floor to give a fiery speech criticizing former president trump. >> today, we face a threat america has never seen before. a former president who provoked a violent attack on this capitol in an effort to steal the election has resumed his aggressive effort to convince americans that the election was stolen from him. he risks inciting further violence. millions of americans have been misled by the former president. they have heard only his words, but not the truth. this is not about partisanship. this is about our duty as americans. remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. i will not participate in that. i will not sit back and watch in silen

so, liz cheney represents every person in this state, like her or not. >> liz cheney has proved herselfy representative. >> and we spoke with a lot who are saying that. >> here's what liz cheney wrote, the republican party is at a turning point. history is watching. whose side are you on? liz cheney or donald trump? >> donald trump. if she runs again, i will vote for her opponent. >> reporter: conservative groups rank liz cheney more politically conservative than donald trump and she has a life long pedigree with a father who served as vice president. a national republican group has put up this billboard thanking liz cheney for, quote, defending the constitution. it all matters little to many in this very red state, who consider their wyoming representative a turn coat and their ex-president from new york city a hero. >> i think she needs to go. >> how come? >> just because i don't think she did the right thing for the republican party. >> she says that donald trump is lying about the election being stolen. >> i agree. >> agree with what? >> i agree that the election was stolen. >> ther

get started today. >>> house republicans are set to oust liz cheney, congresswoman liz cheney from herr chief strategist for president george w. bush. he likens what is going on in politics right now to black mold. here is what he writes. he says, quote we have a black mold momentum in america today. the rise of anti-truth, anti-democratic voters, politicians and some media is a dangerous concern for hour house of democracy. it is a dangerous concern for our house of democracy." it is a huge cause of concern for the long-term health of our republic. this black mold start out in the dark as a few spores of lies and conspiracies and hate. it was left unattended for too long and now must be dealt with in a serious and clear way. and matthew dowd joins me now. matthew, profound words everyone should listen to. thank you, sir. good to see you. black mold. >> good to see you, don. >> black mold is disgusting and toxic, possibly deadly. what's your remedy? how do we save our democracy? >> well, thank you. well, just like with black mold, the way to get rid of it is first you have to acknowled

senator romney tweeting, expelling liz cheney won't gain the gop but it will cause us us -- cost us quite few. manu raju is "outfront." i know you spoke to congresswoman cheney, she told you she had something to say in a little bit. i know you have been speaking with members in congress. what are you hearing from cheney? >> he did confirm that he did speak within the last few days even during all of this as mccarthy tried to align himself and trump saw cheney's ouster for her post. it is very clear that most of them are exact siding with donald trump, are in fact siding with kevin mccarthy. many of them don't want to call out donald trump about what he did in the run-up of january 6th or he continued to say the election was stolen. they also don't want liz cheney bringing the issue up which they'll have to answer questions about what the number three republican leader is saying about all of this. this all comes ahead of tomorrow's key vote. we do expect in the morning and overwhelmingly will vote to oust her and the question will be how quickly to replace her with elise stefanik. there ar

and liz cheney, they want to be rid of liz cheney because she's forcing them everyday, when she speaks truth everyday, she forces these cowards, her fellow colleagues, to look in the mirror everyday and look at themselves. but, again, kevin mccarthy who i served with, he knows the drill, he knows the deal. he wants to be speaker. and he knows where republican voters are at. it's absurd, but it's really tragic. >> joe walsh, thank you so much for joining us this morning. appreciate it. >> thanks, guys. >>> so this is very much connected, tomorrow facebook will announce its decision on whether donald trump will remain suspended from the platform as he continues to push the big election lie. he did it just yesterday. joining me now cnn's senior media reporter oliver darcy. oliver, explain to me how facebook will make this decision, this board, and also, you know, are they going to consider just over the last 24 hours he has put out stuff that just blatantly false, the same type of stuff he did that got him suspended in the first place? >> yeah to be clear, john, facebook is not making thi

one, i think he wants to make an example of liz cheney. two, i think it's signaling a message to donald trump, he's got your back. and, three, i think they're really out of ideas. i mean when this is, you know, your incoming message coming into a 2022 midterm election, you're not talking about really joe biden's record all that much. this is the main story. i think it's because you want it to be. >> and, john, i wonder once liz cheney is gone, then what? you heard miles taylor say this isn't the end. the beginning. you do see it that way? >> political parties change when they get beat soundly and consistently. republicans have lost the house senate and presidency in the last several elections. but they still have a chance of winning back the house. obviously what miles is doing, what liz cheney is doing is not hiving off a big chunk of the republican party. sort of an ice cube off an iceberg. what it does is clarify what's happening to the republican party. jeff flack, the former republican senator outlined it. he said it's not about a sin

does liz cheney do next? and again, we talked about this a little earlier in the broadcast, is there a constituency there, specially in the wake of insurrection that could support some growing movement that exists outside of the trump party? they could call it the republican party. they could call it something else because as we know the republican party is now, in fact, the trump party. that is what we're going to see happen today. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us. don't go anywhere, "morning joe" starts right now. >> dr. fauci, do you support hin funding of the lab in wuhan. >> senator paul, with all due respect, you are entirely and completely incorrect that the nih has not ever and does not now fund, gain a function research in the wuhan institute. >> government scientists like yourself who favor gain of function -- >> i don't favor gain of function research in china. you're saying things that are not correct. >> you're fooling with mother nature here. you're allowing super viruses to be c

congresswoman liz cheney

most of them are sympathetic i think to a certain extent with liz cheney. re seeing play out in public i think is very different than what we're hearing behind closed doors. >> david, liz cheney is warning trump could incite more violence. she plans to be one of the leaders in a fight to restore the gop. what is she up against when so many republicans are sticking with trump and the big lie? i actually do think, david, that they made an enemy they don't want to make and maybe they haven't realized the power of that enemy. that's just my gut, i don't know. >> charlie can speak to this, but liz cheney is as tenacious as they come. i think that comes in the genes there. and i do think she's going to be tenacious about this. and she's fighting for one thing i think is absolutely correct which is there should be a 9/11-style commission to get to the bottom of what happened on the 6th, when who did what. it should be a nonpartisan commission of people not elected officials much as the 9/11 commission was. it's absolutely appropriate to do that. and that's one of t

this fight with liz cheney is not about policy.ooked at the landscape and aftermath of 2020 and just said we don't have a better idea so we'll double down and stage a b.s. voting rights fight to try to restrict voting to stop these people from coming back in 2024. it is just people cannot think of any collision. you know what? go ahead. try to win, i don't know nascar, major league baseball. i don't know who is left in this tent besides matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene and kevin mccarthy, if you want to go down the road, they hold the power anyway. >> congressman, tom freedman said this is a threat to democracy. liz cheney said it is. do you agree? >> i agree. if you look forward, how will we have a policy discussion based on facts? where do we go from here? i had this argument with somebody in a committee meeting. i said i'm telling you now there is not satan worshipping child blood sucking people. they said you're being paid by sorrows and you're changing sexual orientation of children. it hard to have a discussion based on

liz cheney refuses to lie. that's one of my republican senate colleagues said to me following my impeachment vote, i wouldn't want to be a member of a group that punished someone for following their conscience. congresswoman cheney appears to be following her conscience and kevin mccarthy suggested it may cost her. what is the latest you're hearing about where things stand between mccarthy and cheney? >> it appears that the republican party surprise, surprise caved to donald trump and kevin mccarthy thinks he has the votes to push liz cheney out and he is, i heard, pushing for elyce to replace her, who, anderson, is again not a surprise a trump loyalists. a little while ago i spoke to someone familiar with liz cheney's thinking about all of this and i was told quote it is not a surprise. she knew this was coming. she is not afraid of the consequences. the stakes are too high. translation, she is ready to move on, this is about principle over politics and i'm told she will not resign, she will wait for the vote.

now he succeeded in ousting liz cheney. he goes down to hold a meeting at the white house with president biden, and he wants to play the role of a serious political leader who is talking to a president. so he says nobody is questioning the election. it just doesn't -- the words that come out of his mouth don't mean anything more than, you know, carving something in the sand and a wave then comes by and washes it away at the ocean. this is somebody who wants to become speaker of the house, he's acting in ways he thinks will make him speaker of the house but you can't take the words he says seriously. >> john harwood thank you, very succinct i appreciate it. congresswoman liz cheney booted from her post in the house, the house republican leadership, but she hasn't been silenced, saying she intends to be a leader in the battle for the soul of the gop and to fight to stop the spread of what she calls trump's destructive lies and hiss efforts to unravel our democracy. joining me to discuss, the veteran journalist dan rather, and

this fight with liz cheney is not about policy. doubling down in the election lie because all these people looked at the landscape and in the aftermath of 2020 and they said we don't have a better idea. so we are just going to double down and stage a bs-voting rights fight to try to restrict voting to stop these people from coming back in 2024. it is just a -- people cannot think of any other coalition to build. so they just keep stripping people away. and so, you know what? go ahead. try to win without the liz cheneys, the mitt romneys. i don't know. nascar, major-league baseball. i mean, i don't know who is left in this tent, besides matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene. and, kevin mccarthy, if you want to go down that road, just give up the gavel because they hold the power, anyway. >> congressman riggleman, is this -- you know, tom friedman has talked about this as a threat to dmemocracy. certainly, liz cheney says it is. do you agree? >> i agree. going forward, how are we going to have a policy discussion based on facts? wher

when democrats quote liz cheney more than republicans quote liz cheney, or fundamental job and primary job is communication, it's a battle between them and i think we will see some fireworks next week. >> laura: when you have cnn realizing that just because trump was out of office it doesn't mean the voters have abandon him. when is cheney going to get to that? >> we have been asking what is the future of the republican party post trump? the answer is it is not really post trump. we are still in the trump era in the republican party and if liz cheney is in fact ousted in a week that really solidifies this. that tells us pretty clearly where the party is, where they believe the energy is. >> laura: what are they afraid of? he had 74 million votes. 74 million. despite everything that he faced. >> he got more votes than any republican candidate in the history of our nation and yet, as we look at this, liz cheney says that donald trump has no role in the republican party. i can tell you it is the most coveted endorsement that is out there. he continues to shape, as you mentioned, the race

liz cheney speech is a call to action, she says we must act, we have a duty to act.ard-looking speech, it's not just a lament that trump did this or didn't do that. it says going forward, if this is allowed, this is an offense to democracy in the rule of law. and to a party that should be a party dedicated to freedom and to the constitution. i think she's throwing down the gauntlets and saying that she is in the fight and she will be outed from the position of leadership but she is in this for months and years to come. >> what becomes of her, why do you think and what do you know about her immediate future beyoncÉ finishing on term in the house of representatives -- assuming that she's primaried back home in wyoming? >> she will be primaried and she will fight that fight, i believe. i think, after what she said tonight it is hard to see how she doesn't take leadership of the movement to liberate the republican party from trump, it is a small movement, but her and adam kinzinger are fighting the fight and really it is shocking how colleagues and close friends of liz c

wyoming's population is so small, it only has one at-large member of the house of representatives, liz cheney. it's also a state so ruby red it gave trump his strongest win in the 2020 election, percentage wise. 70% of voters chose trump, 27% chose biden. does this spell trouble for cheney? let's get right to cnn's gary tuchman, live from cheyenne, in cheney's home state of wyoming. gary, what are voters there saying to you? >> reporter: jake, we talked to a lot of voters in cheyenne, wyoming. what surprises me a little bit, it's been very difficult to find a loyal republican who says i like cheney, i like trump. let's try to get it together. people are extremely dug in to their positions. what i can tell you at this point is that anyone we've talked to who says that -- who lies and says the election was stolen or it may have been stolen, they are shedding no tears for liz cheney. this dispute, do you think liz cheney has the right to be angry with donald trump? >> no. >> reporter: why? >> because i don't think he's wrong. >> reporter: do you think the election was stolen? >> i think it's pos

and now, people, like liz cheney -- liz cheney, of all people? liz cheney. dick cheney's daughter. on the ropes because she refuses to promote the big lie. because she is telling her party exactly what it doesn't want to hear, and that is the truth. i'm here to tell you the truth, people. that's all. that's it. sources telling cnn that cnn's jamie gangel that the congresswoman, the number-three house republican, said this today in an off-the-record interview with former-house speaker, paul ryan. and i quote here. we can't rebuild the party or the conservative movement on a foundation of lies. we can't embrace the notion the election is stolen. we can't whitewash what happened on january 6th or perpetuate trump's big lie. it's a threat to democracy. and that could cost liz cheney her leadership position in a republican party, that is tearing itself apart, right now. the congresswoman and a handful of other republicans, on one side. on the other? more and more members of what used to be the party of lincoln. now, the party of a disgraced, twice-impeached, one-term president, who lost

>> clearly, it's not liz cheney right now. we have largely become a post policy party and really much more focused on a culture war. i think the clearest evidence of that is, you know, look who is going to most likely replace liz cheney. by every measure, liz cheney is more conservative than she is. you go through every issue. there is no question that she has more support. it's because she fights those culture wars. she stands by donald trump. that's obviously the big one. and, you know, i wish that there was some bigger goal that we are working towards. you know, joe biden is talking about dramatically remaking the scale and roll of government and republicans are largely focused on things like dr. suess and mr. potato head and imaginary meat bands. these are things that what john boehner is talking about let's wait up. let's focus on the big issues are but obviously we're so far beyond that because most of what republican voters want to hear more than anything is just do you support donald trump? it's as simple as that. >> m

liz cheney refuses to lie. as one of my republican senate colleagues said to me following my impeachment group, i wouldn't want to be a member of a group that punished someone for following their conscience. but that is sadly what the gop seemed determined to do. punish liz cheney for refusing to go along with trump's lies for her impeachment vote. and as mccarthy -- that the congresswoman is not on board with the gop's message, you got to wonder exactly what their message is. what are their policy proposals? what's their plan for america? what is it? what are they about? policy. how are they helping you? what are they doing for you? the gop has been struggling to come up with any kind of coherent message at all. what they been standing up for lately? you really want to know? i have to say this every night and it's the truth. mr. potato head, dr. seuss. >> first they outlaw dr. seuss. and now they want to tell us what to say. >> i am sam, i am sam. sam i am. that's sam i am. that's sam i am, i do not like that

that's not going to happen now. >> liz cheney, the last time liz cheney and mccarthy appeared at a pressference together was more than two months ago when they were asked about whether or not donald trump should speak at the conservative political action committee event and what happened there was mccarthy said he should and liz cheney said he shouldn't. and then since then, they have not appeared together. things got incredibly tense and ultimately leading to her being ousted from the house republican leadership ranks. of course, she still has her seat in congress. she has to face re-election next year, but not having that perch where they could drive the party's agenda, the message and showcase some unity was important for republicans who say they want their team in line here and now they picked someone who has been in line with donald trump. >> so she said, liz cheney said last night, in that interview on fox with bret baier that she's not going to run for president. now a lot of people who have run for president have said they are not. but it was a pretty clear answer from her. my qu

as bold as liz cheney has been, as much leadership as she's shown in this moment she is welcomed into a vast minority of the republican party. the senate has romney. the house has cheney. but the question is how do you keep donald trump from getting to the oval office? does liz cheney stay? leaf the congress to try to lead the movement? >> yamiche, mccarthy is a lot of things. i think david jolly listed some of them. he's proven himself today standing before the sacred structure that is the white house that you cover a liar. watch what he said today and then i've got the tape. >> i don't think anybody is questioning the legitimacy of the presidential election. i think that is all over with. we are sitting here with the president today. so from that point of view i don't think that's a problem. >> so kevin mccarthy is the reason that the big lie took hold. mccarthy and mcconnell are the reason that i think it's -- i want to get the number right but i think it's 70% of republicans who don't believe what he just said. among the republicans 70% do not believe that joe biden is legitimate.

it's all but a forgone conclusion that elise stefanik will replace liz cheney and liz cheney will be it will happen wednesday in a conference meeting where one republican member has to make a motion of confidence against cheney. if leadership considers it of immediate importance, they can call a vote. a simple majority can vote her out. the writing has been on the wall for a while. the message that republicans are sending is that you can't be in party leadership if you contradict president trump. he is the leader of the party. liz cheney for actively debunking his falsehoods was not appreciated by her party. that's the reason it appears she has to go. >> it's the active debunking but it's what you hear from those republicans who want to see her gone is it's a messaging issue. she's not on message with where the rest of the gop is. here is congressman banks on that. >> any leader who is not focused on that, on pushing back against the radical dangerous biden agenda at this point needs to be replaced. the point is we are almost entirely unified except for liz cheney. >> the person who i

get started today. >>> congresswoman liz cheney is ousted tomorrow. today. it is a dangerous concern for our house of democracy." it is a huge cause of concern for the long-term health of our republic. this black mold start out in the dark as a few spores of lies and conspiracies and hate. it was left unattended for too long and now must be dealt with in a serious and clear way. matthew dowd is joining me now. thank you, sir, good to see you. black mold. >> good to see you, don. >> black mold is disgusting and deadly and toxic. how do we save our democracy? >> just like with black mold, the way to get rid of it is you have to acknowledge you have it and not hire somebody to paint over it and not realize the fundamental problems. it may means tearing out some walls and fundamentally dealing with the problem. that's the only way we do it. as voters we have to do that and we have to see it clearly. we have to acknowledge it and we have to hire contractors who are elected officials to fundamentally deal with the problem and that to me, january 6th to me i

liz cheney of course a politician and also a mother of five. ire life perhaps for that fight that she is in tonight. >> we were at the wyoming state fair parade in douglas, wyoming. >> reporter: for congress woman liz cheney, politics has always been a family affair. >> does anyone else want to contribute rules of behavior fe being in a parade. >> reporter: parade appearances coming alongside kids' potty humor. >> i said richard, what's your rule? he said no farting. >> reporter: cheney is the mother of five children from 15 to 25 years old, her oldest son named after former vice president dick cheney and she's featured her family prominently over the years. in her campaigns. >> we're proud of our families deep roots in wyoming. >> reporter: and during her father's years during vice president. her husband is philly harry, a lawyer in washington d.c. that serve in several roles during the bush years. >> she is a very principled woman and, you know, like it or not, what her principles are, she's going to always draw on them and stick with them. >>

and liz cheney defiant as ever as we approach her last hours as a republican leader. the gop is about to do what former president trump wants them to do, remove cheney from her leadership position. her offense is telling the truth and unlike many of her colleagues, refusing to peddle trump's big lie that the election was stolen. on the house floor last night, she said that silence is not an option. >> every one of us who has sworn the oath must act to prevent the unraveling of our democracy. remaining silent and ignoring the lie emboldens the liar. i will not participate in that. i will not sit back and watch in silence while others lead our party down a path that abandons the rule of law and joins the former president's crusade to undermine our democracy. >> by the way, the guy sitting next to brianna there, that was a stand-in. we'll talk to him in just a moment. cheney's likely replacement, new york congresswoman elise stefanik has been blessed by both trump and kevin mccarthy but there's pushback from party conservatives not happy with her more moderate voting reco

i have heard that liz cheney thing already. i take that as a terroristic threat to the past president. host: anything else? caller: no, that is all. guest: mr. olson, reaction? caller: i think that representative cheney is going to be saying what she is going to be saying. i don't see it as a threat to the current or former president. i think she has a political agenda. the political agenda is to make sure donald trump never comes close to sitting in the oval office again. that is a political threat, and nothing more. host: here is the headline in the washington post. in the gop, survival means allowing trump's election lie to live on. what you make of that? guest: i think there is a lot of hyperbole in the press that doesn't understand what is going on in the republican party. that is willfully blind about discussion in the republican party. i would like to see republican leaders challenge trump's lie that it is one thing to be concerned about election integrity, it is another thing to support the lie that the president is spew

the coming leadership ouster of liz cheney is more about the sacking of the number three house republican, it's an unconditional surrender that the 2020 election was somehow stolen. cheney's crime isn't that she isn't conservative, it's that she's not conservative as defined by today's republican party which partly means unquestioned loyalty to the defeated former president trump. she says the election was not stolen and charges trump with inciting the insurrection. it is the latest chapter in the party's purging of the legacy. the bushes, mccains, the romneys and now the cheneys. names that appeared on eight of nine presidential tickets from 1980 to 12, ex communicated by the party's base and the leadership. for one reason only, the message, go along with drld and his lies or go away. will this help in the short term? perhaps. what does it mean for our democracy, when a great institution refuses to accept free and fair election results and rejects their own who chooses principle over party. >> i have concerns about her ability to carry out the job as conference chair. >> congresswoman li

cancel culture on the eve on the forced cancellation of liz cheney.ening on the network. 10:00 p.m. eastern, to be exact. my colleague, lawrence o o'donnell will be joined for a event, vaccinating america. and they will be joined by the white house response team and one of the vaccine developers. for now and for us, it's the broadcast for this tuesday night with our thanks for being here with us. on behalf of all of our colleagues at the networks of nbc news good night. >> as we have been reporting tonight, tomorrow's gonna be a big day. the cdc's vaccine advisory committee will meet tomorrow to consider the recommendation to change the age eligibility for the pfizer vaccine that protects against covid. right now that pfizer vaccine is authorized for use in people aged 16 and over, tomorrow they will take up the question of whether that should be changed to age 12 and over, if as expected, the cdc's advisory panel says yes to that, and then the cdc itself agrees, then the first 12, 13, 14 15 years could start getting vaccinated in this country potenti

, liz cheney of all people, dick cheney's daughter refuses to promote the big lie. she's telling her party exactly what they want to hear and that's the truth. i am here to tell you the truth people, that's all. that's it. sources are telling cnn that the congresswoman, the number three house republican said this today in an off the record interview with paul ryan. i quote here "we can't rebuild the party on a notion of lie, we can't whitewash what happened on january 6th or perpetuate trump's big lie." that could cause cheney her position, the republican party that's tearing themselves apart right now. the congresswoman and a handful of republicans on one side. on the other? more on more members of bwhat used to be the now, the twice disgraced and impeached, one term president who lost the white house. trump lost. trumpism did not. not as long as republicans are willing to buy in the big lie and issuing one statement after another since he was kicked off twitter in the wake of the insurrection. resorting to insulting congresswoman cheney and claiming she will never